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	<title>Comments on: How can urxvt crash the X.Org server? (Yes, it does that.)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/</link>
	<description>A last espresso before you die (yes, I am cynical)</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 05:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-426</guid>
		<description>Race condition? In 2009, this is still an unsolved problem? If locking is rocket science, then DRI was never production-ready, and only the morons released it to be used on millions of computers!

At least, nobody can blame Microsoft for that. It&#039;s not their product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Race condition? In 2009, this is still an unsolved problem? If locking is rocket science, then DRI was never production-ready, and only the morons released it to be used on millions of computers!</p>
<p>At least, nobody can blame Microsoft for that. It&#039;s not their product.</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-425</guid>
		<description>Also AIGLX crashing X11 is not really AIGLX crashing X11.

It VT switching.  For some reason the program you have is using it.  Xterm GTerminal... lot of other terminal don&#039;t do it.

Even turning AIGLX off only reduces the risk of the race condition.  Two applications trying to interface with video card at the same time.   Sorry true stability will come with DRI2 drivers for X11 that uses a shared kernel based memory manager gem to stop applications stepping on each other. 

This is the X11/posix Video nightmare reason why freebsd and other posix are also taking up the DRI2 and kernel based memory manager for video cards.

[console] own video card memory manager.
[vt] each application with there own video card manager.
X11 is on a vt so it has it own.
And that application is using a vt so it has it own.  So X11 and that application has to do pass overs of video card control.  Problem is when it gets out of order splat.  Basically the applications hand back of control of that section of memory is defective or X11 user-space take back control is defective so leaving you with splat.

Most terminal programs using pty pseudo-terminal interfaces so avoiding these mothers of stuff-ups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also AIGLX crashing X11 is not really AIGLX crashing X11.</p>
<p>It VT switching.  For some reason the program you have is using it.  Xterm GTerminal&#8230; lot of other terminal don&#039;t do it.</p>
<p>Even turning AIGLX off only reduces the risk of the race condition.  Two applications trying to interface with video card at the same time.   Sorry true stability will come with DRI2 drivers for X11 that uses a shared kernel based memory manager gem to stop applications stepping on each other. </p>
<p>This is the X11/posix Video nightmare reason why freebsd and other posix are also taking up the DRI2 and kernel based memory manager for video cards.</p>
<p>[console] own video card memory manager.<br />
[vt] each application with there own video card manager.<br />
X11 is on a vt so it has it own.<br />
And that application is using a vt so it has it own.  So X11 and that application has to do pass overs of video card control.  Problem is when it gets out of order splat.  Basically the applications hand back of control of that section of memory is defective or X11 user-space take back control is defective so leaving you with splat.</p>
<p>Most terminal programs using pty pseudo-terminal interfaces so avoiding these mothers of stuff-ups.</p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-416</guid>
		<description>OK then. I was happier when AIGLX was outside GLX. I don&#039;t need the Compiz shit anyway. And in the past I didn&#039;t need to manually disable AIGLX to have a stable system, dammit! (Oh, I hate everybody, including Red Hat!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK then. I was happier when AIGLX was outside GLX. I don&#039;t need the Compiz shit anyway. And in the past I didn&#039;t need to manually disable AIGLX to have a stable system, dammit! (Oh, I hate everybody, including Red Hat!)</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-415</guid>
		<description>I should have been more clear.  Ever since AIGLX has merged its been part of the GLX driver of savage.

AIGLX is not independent to GLX.  Its a segment of the GLX spec.  Option &#34;AIGLX&#34; &#34;off&#34; is just tell server not to use segment of GLX spec.  There are other options to turn it off.

Option &#34;AIGLX&#34; &#34;off&#34; works on all video cards with GLX support including Nvidia that don&#039;t use any redhat code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have been more clear.  Ever since AIGLX has merged its been part of the GLX driver of savage.</p>
<p>AIGLX is not independent to GLX.  Its a segment of the GLX spec.  Option &quot;AIGLX&quot; &quot;off&quot; is just tell server not to use segment of GLX spec.  There are other options to turn it off.</p>
<p>Option &quot;AIGLX&quot; &quot;off&quot; works on all video cards with GLX support including Nvidia that don&#039;t use any redhat code.</p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-414</guid>
		<description>Can't be. Wikipedia:

"GLX was created by Silicon Graphics and is currently at version 1.4. GLX, with both DRI and Mesa, is included in the X.Org Foundation's version of the X Window System since X11R6.7.0, and in The XFree86 Project's version since version 4.0."

So it's old like hell and heaven. I had DRI and Mesa support since ages!

Now, for the Red Hat project that was "required for OpenGL compositing window managers (such as Compiz Fusion) to function with hardware acceleration":

"The AIGLX project has been merged into X.Org and is available as of X.Org 7.1."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t be. Wikipedia:</p>
<p>&#8220;GLX was created by Silicon Graphics and is currently at version 1.4. GLX, with both DRI and Mesa, is included in the X.Org Foundation&#8217;s version of the X Window System since X11R6.7.0, and in The XFree86 Project&#8217;s version since version 4.0.&#8221;</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s old like hell and heaven. I had DRI and Mesa support since ages!</p>
<p>Now, for the Red Hat project that was &#8220;required for OpenGL compositing window managers (such as Compiz Fusion) to function with hardware acceleration&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;The AIGLX project has been merged into X.Org and is available as of X.Org 7.1.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-413</guid>
		<description>glx for Savage is AIGLX.  Always has been.  You are thinking about a different flag that is xgl yes the difference between x at the start and end makes a big difference.

The assume is your problem.  xgl existed before glx.   xgl is the deprecated interface for providing opengl support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>glx for Savage is AIGLX.  Always has been.  You are thinking about a different flag that is xgl yes the difference between x at the start and end makes a big difference.</p>
<p>The assume is your problem.  xgl existed before glx.   xgl is the deprecated interface for providing opengl support.</p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-407</guid>
		<description>glxgears give 100...130 fps on that antique Savage, but for this to work the &#34;glx&#34; extension and &#34;dri&#34; have to be loaded. Otherwise...

So, I assume they *do* exist. They were this way long before AIGLX was invented.

And, needless to say, Xfree86 and X.Org never crashed on that laptop before -- at least, not this way.

I&#039;m not interested in the various ways of 2-D, 3-D, 1*E^6-D acceleration, I just want that fucking video card to work! When an application uses a certain API call, it must work, regardless of the place where most of the computation is made (hardware, software).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>glxgears give 100&#8230;130 fps on that antique Savage, but for this to work the &quot;glx&quot; extension and &quot;dri&quot; have to be loaded. Otherwise&#8230;</p>
<p>So, I assume they *do* exist. They were this way long before AIGLX was invented.</p>
<p>And, needless to say, Xfree86 and X.Org never crashed on that laptop before &#8212; at least, not this way.</p>
<p>I&#039;m not interested in the various ways of 2-D, 3-D, 1*E^6-D acceleration, I just want that fucking video card to work! When an application uses a certain API call, it must work, regardless of the place where most of the computation is made (hardware, software).</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-406</guid>
		<description>Savage card driver evil bits of work.  They don&#039;t really have Load &#34;glx&#34; support.   You ask for that you get AIGLX software replacement for glx.

Just added urxvt to my list of applications not to install due to doing switching of virtual terminals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Savage card driver evil bits of work.  They don&#039;t really have Load &quot;glx&quot; support.   You ask for that you get AIGLX software replacement for glx.</p>
<p>Just added urxvt to my list of applications not to install due to doing switching of virtual terminals.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterKraus</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterKraus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 10:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-404</guid>
		<description>»@PeterKraus: you are a jerk. If this is the criteria for being a FSF member…«
No, it&#039;s criteria for being Me. You are coming pretty close to perfection in this aspect, to be honest ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>»@PeterKraus: you are a jerk. If this is the criteria for being a FSF member…«<br />
No, it&#039;s criteria for being Me. You are coming pretty close to perfection in this aspect, to be honest <img src='http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-399</guid>
		<description>@PeterKraus: you are a jerk. If this is the criteria for being a FSF member...

Why should I disable something I have never enabled? Because the pieces of shit at the X.Org thought so? 

I have had for years these options in xorg.conf:
    Load  &#34;glx&#34;
    Load  &#34;dbe&#34;
    Load  &#34;dri&#34;
but they did *not* mean anything like AIGLX or other modern shit until in recent times!

Now, what do I need to do? 
Section &#34;ServerFlags&#34;
    Option  &#34;AIGLX&#34; &#34;off&#34;
EndSection

Why do I *have* to set OFF something I have never set ON?

---

@oiaohm: 

&gt; Sure you did not hit ctrl+alt+f1 at some point. Or that application is doing equal for some reason.

No. Just launch urxvt, and click on its close button. This is all you have to do to crash X on a &#34;savage&#34; card.

---

@ g.ray:

&gt; I tried once a Centos netinstall 

In the meantime I clarified that it was not a netinstall in the meaning of &#34;minimal boot disk&#34;, but a FTP install using CD1 and its Anaconda with &#34;askmethod&#34; to be able to specify a FTP server as the install media.

Everything was just fine otherwise. Same RPMs, but from a server, not the CD-set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PeterKraus: you are a jerk. If this is the criteria for being a FSF member&#8230;</p>
<p>Why should I disable something I have never enabled? Because the pieces of shit at the X.Org thought so? </p>
<p>I have had for years these options in xorg.conf:<br />
    Load  &quot;glx&quot;<br />
    Load  &quot;dbe&quot;<br />
    Load  &quot;dri&quot;<br />
but they did *not* mean anything like AIGLX or other modern shit until in recent times!</p>
<p>Now, what do I need to do?<br />
Section &quot;ServerFlags&quot;<br />
    Option  &quot;AIGLX&quot; &quot;off&quot;<br />
EndSection</p>
<p>Why do I *have* to set OFF something I have never set ON?</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>@oiaohm: </p>
<p>&gt; Sure you did not hit ctrl+alt+f1 at some point. Or that application is doing equal for some reason.</p>
<p>No. Just launch urxvt, and click on its close button. This is all you have to do to crash X on a &quot;savage&quot; card.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>@ g.ray:</p>
<p>&gt; I tried once a Centos netinstall </p>
<p>In the meantime I clarified that it was not a netinstall in the meaning of &quot;minimal boot disk&quot;, but a FTP install using CD1 and its Anaconda with &quot;askmethod&quot; to be able to specify a FTP server as the install media.</p>
<p>Everything was just fine otherwise. Same RPMs, but from a server, not the CD-set.</p>
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		<title>By: g.ray</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>g.ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-398</guid>
		<description>Well, I tried once a Centos netinstall and crashed on me at finish, then I saw this: 
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/PXE/InternetInstallation?highlight=%28netinstall%29
&#34;...poor installation environment&#34; is just an euphemism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I tried once a Centos netinstall and crashed on me at finish, then I saw this:<br />
<a href="http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/PXE/InternetInstallation?highlight=%28netinstall%29" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/PXE/InternetInstallation?highlight=%28netinstall%29</a><br />
&quot;&#8230;poor installation environment&quot; is just an euphemism.</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-396</guid>
		<description>AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch

Sooner DRI2 gets here the better.  I am 100 percent sick of it.

That is the dicey as hell memory swap between Virtual terminals.  Sure you did not hit ctrl+alt+f1 at some point.  Or that application is doing equal for some reason.

Nvidia drivers are more resistant to it.  I guess you had Nvidia when it used to work.

Due to lack of in kernel memory management of video cards before DRI2+GEM+KMS was invented.  What happens is programs loss track of who video card memory is whos leading to these problems.

If you had SAK enabled in kernel that still would have worked to restore access.  Ok lossing work but restored access.

I don&#039;t say faults don&#039;t exist in Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch</p>
<p>Sooner DRI2 gets here the better.  I am 100 percent sick of it.</p>
<p>That is the dicey as hell memory swap between Virtual terminals.  Sure you did not hit ctrl+alt+f1 at some point.  Or that application is doing equal for some reason.</p>
<p>Nvidia drivers are more resistant to it.  I guess you had Nvidia when it used to work.</p>
<p>Due to lack of in kernel memory management of video cards before DRI2+GEM+KMS was invented.  What happens is programs loss track of who video card memory is whos leading to these problems.</p>
<p>If you had SAK enabled in kernel that still would have worked to restore access.  Ok lossing work but restored access.</p>
<p>I don&#039;t say faults don&#039;t exist in Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterKraus</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterKraus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-395</guid>
		<description>Right. You are incompetent. If you did a bit of research, you&#039;d know that disabling AIGLX is not that hard.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disable+aiglx+xorg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. You are incompetent. If you did a bit of research, you&#039;d know that disabling AIGLX is not that hard.</p>
<p><a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disable+aiglx+xorg" rel="nofollow">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disable+aiglx+xorg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-394</guid>
		<description>CORRECTION: it was not a netinstall in the official meaning. I&#039;ve used CD1 with askmethod and entered a FTP server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CORRECTION: it was not a netinstall in the official meaning. I&#039;ve used CD1 with askmethod and entered a FTP server.</p>
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		<title>By: Béranger</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Béranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-393</guid>
		<description>This is absolutely not true! The only difference is that the RPMs are retrieved from a FTP location instead of the CD-ROMs/DVD.

Otherwise, there are the same RPMs, installed by the same code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absolutely not true! The only difference is that the RPMs are retrieved from a FTP location instead of the CD-ROMs/DVD.</p>
<p>Otherwise, there are the same RPMs, installed by the same code.</p>
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		<title>By: g.ray</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>g.ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 05:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Well, AFAIK the netinstall method in Centos (and probably SL) is pretty much fucked up, broken, so do it old school way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, AFAIK the netinstall method in Centos (and probably SL) is pretty much fucked up, broken, so do it old school way.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobeica</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobeica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-389</guid>
		<description>&gt; Why am I still wasting my time with Linux?

No idea. I deleted my Linux partition last week, and since then I&#039;m &#34;rootnoverify (hd0,0); chainloader +1; boot&#34; because I&#039;m too lazy to &#34;fixmbr&#34;, but even so I&#039;m glad I got rid of it. It&#039;s not worth wasting time with all the bugs and annoyances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Why am I still wasting my time with Linux?</p>
<p>No idea. I deleted my Linux partition last week, and since then I&#039;m &quot;rootnoverify (hd0,0); chainloader +1; boot&quot; because I&#039;m too lazy to &quot;fixmbr&quot;, but even so I&#039;m glad I got rid of it. It&#039;s not worth wasting time with all the bugs and annoyances.</p>
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		<title>By: Takla</title>
		<link>http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/03/how-can-urxvt-crash-the-xorg-server-yes-it-does-that/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>Takla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/?p=1352#comment-384</guid>
		<description>&gt;Why am I still wasting my time with Linux? 

Because it beats writing about anti-virus?

Linux is great for bloggers and journos because you can find stuff to complain about for free :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Why am I still wasting my time with Linux? </p>
<p>Because it beats writing about anti-virus?</p>
<p>Linux is great for bloggers and journos because you can find stuff to complain about for free <img src='http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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