Fortunately there are also the good GTK guys like the LXDE community. Development needs to rest in the hands of a worldwide community, not US corporations.

QT -which is a __library__ (unless there are historical developments changing definitions! - and some helpers (executables like assistant, moc, etc…) , not a language - can be compiled from the sources, now, with g++ (mainly). I do not see which part of QT is “closed source”. This is even the only way it is installed on Windows!!!!

And the *dual * licence is very clear {cf http://www.qtsoftware.com/downloads}….

OTOH, QT can be put on a device with a small memory print (qt embedded or qtopia)… This is is not the case of kde (at least KDE-4.x : it has weird pulses of RAM greediness -about 100M- and CPU consumption, even if I remove services like strigi/nepomux which are greedy and I do not need).

For mono based applications, I do not know (I have gnome without mono at work because the mono parts are not useful) . Perhaps it is so secret no [open source?] application can be converted???

I hope I am not too ignorant about the nature/openness of source…

So, all that you have there is some fears, and that makes you switch to the desktop environment that traditionally never cared much about political correctness? Well done, it certainly pays to be ignorant about history…

The core of GNOME is programmed in C using the Gtk widget set. Is it therefore unreasonable to expect that GNOME-included applications should be programmed with those technologies. Is Python for this, Ruby for that, Mono for something else a sensible way to construct a cohesive desktop?

I thought not and recently switched from GNOME to KDE which seems to fit in with my beliefs. Do I miss beagle, f-spot and tomboy? Not really, I have nepomuk/strigi, digiKam and basKet which replicate the formers' function entirely to my satisfaction and they are all native KDE applications.

How did I achieve this remarkable feat without my distribution trying to convince me that I should install Mono by default? Simple, I installed Mandriva Free!

We have a choice in these things already perhaps we should actually exercise it. Who knows you might change the way you work for the better.

Yeah, there is nothing like using unnecessarily complex frameworks and dependencies just to print "Hello world" in a GUI window.

Yeah, there is nothing like using C# when C, C++, Python or anything else would do. I mean, Gtk# instead of Gtk+, gtkmm, PyGtk. Or even PyQt! ADDING MONO DEPENDECIES FOR A STUPID BLOODY LITTLE APPLICATION IS IDIOTIC!

Note that I would have said the same if GNOME-based distro would ship Java apps instead of C# apps.

This level of complex dependencies is UNNEEDED.

Elegance is simple. Too much is too much.

Once again, it's NOT ABOUT MICROSOFT in my denial of Mono! OTHER people worry about patents, etc. — not me!

I just don't need a gun to kill a fly. That's all. And I don't want to be required that gun.

I am really concerned about those posts I've read through past few days. Hate Mono? Love Mono? Damn it!

No prejudice, no hate and no love on my side. I am just a programmer, that tends to do the work the easiest and most effective way.

I was using scripting languages, I was using Java, Looooooong time ago I was using c++ …

But there is nothing compared to C# when it comes to ease of use for developers. I am using it past few years and I must say, that I was really happy to see, that someone tries to put the same abilities in Linux.

Reading this Crap I am starting to think about contacting Microsoft and ask them, what they really thinks, because what I see here seems to be rumors for me. I haven't seen any statements from MS so far… Hey, you've got some on MS site? Give me the link to see, cause other vice I'll still think, that I hate MS for 1000+1 reasons, but if they did something good, than it is C#/.NET environment, thus providing it for me as a hardcore developer in Linux seems to be good idea for me…

I am sorry if I made you upset…

Free should be free, the C# has its ECMA specs, making it free to implement. So what the hell is this about?

Dropping Microsoft, Windows, anti-virus and all related crap was a conscious decision. Now all I want is to run Linux and FREE applications to do my job and live free of crapware, and never worry about all the hassles that currently drive a windows box into a gamebox where everyone but the owner get to decide what processes run on it. I simply don't want Microsoft and Bill and Icaza and Hovsepian and all these "nice" persons handling a single bit of data in MY computers, be it at home or at my –own– company.

So, bear with me: No mono No mono No mono…

Another thing makes me uneasy, it is the number of hits ("June 13th, 2009 | Software | 25 Comments | 2,329 views")

The problem sane people have with mono is THIS and ONLY this. It is not a religious fucking war, only idiots see it that way and characterise one side or the other as zealots or whatever. The mono stuff has nothing AT ALL to do with a belief in a deity.

And here’s the rub, if Microsoft offered an *unlimited* patent covenant for *everybody*, there would be absolutely no bickering about the subject at all and we could all get on with our lives.

Instead, no, that would be too easy. Let’s call each other names and tell the “mono-haters” they are freetards and call the “mono-lovers” Microsoft stooges, and have endless rants about the spirit of the GPL and what is good and bad. Let’s all completely miss the fucking point and help the enemies of FOSS to fragment the community further with constant bitching.

example: I don't use mono. I don't love it. My objection to the campaign against it is that it's based on it's origin, not the facts. But mono lovers is a widely used demeaning characterisation of anyone who objects to the witch hunt.

Are we going to have categories of free software, ordered according to prejudice and hatred? What else might be free software and permissible in a repo but not allowed to be on an install CD. Works by people of a different ethnic origin? Works by groups who also produce proprietary works? Works originating from fields of endeavour we object to, perhaps medical research or the military? Works from companies that have competed hard against a free alternative? Works with contributions from people with low moral standards? We should start a eugenics/morality research program and cast out the unclean?

That's good bye to the entire free software world including the kernel.

It should be an issue about software freedom but most of the people who campaign against this piece of free software demonstrate that in fact it's religion (aka stupidity, blind prejudice, intolerance and a remarkable aversion to facts):

"Microsoft is EVIL" or "anything from Microsoft should be avoided at all costs!"

.avi containers?

smb protocol?

ms-ttf fonts?

start button?

bitmap images?

chm docs?

The thing about free software is that it has its roots in reason and ethics, not hatred, ignorance or prejudice. This means it doesn't discriminate against persons, groups or fields of endeavour. This works both ways. The GPL forbids discrimination on those terms in using and distributing free software and we are also able to assess the work of people and groups freely, without considering prejudice, fear or hatred.

There are many well established religions with long histories of irrationality, hatred, scare-mongering, idiocy, violence, slander and so on. Surely they will happily accommodate some of these people?

Users are always free to install Mono and applications based on it if they so desire from the repos. But that argument that users are also free to remove it when it is installed by default, sounds like "You can always remove the rod I inserted in you backside with your bare hands"

Some Gnome developers intend to screw their users in the long run, that is becoming pretty obvious now,

The point of the above statement is simple. Microsoft is EVIL, and anything from Microsoft should be avoided at all costs!

This is the problem with a lot of apps these days. I don't think I'm a great programmer, but then I take a look at some code and I could cry. WTF?! :/ The the dangerous part is when distros start including cruft by default.

Even Debian is being affected by this BS recently. They were probably one of the most hardcore when it came to ideals. And now?

Well, in the future, there will probably a back lash of programmers and hackers that are fed up with the noobs.

I can't believe Gnome has included some Mono apps. Is this correct? This is no gossip? Are you sure? Dear Heavenly Father, I thank thee for KDE.

Eat out or learn to cook yourself. Don't whine like bitches… bitches.

Using Debian for several years, and now on Xubuntu (yes I wanted ext4 !), there is a nice neat little .deb package very useful out there. Just download and install.
You can find it here if you want :
http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/

Yours truly
Alejo

"And that's the intellectual and ethical level of almost everything emanating from any self-righteous, dogmatic fool you can find anywhere in any time, speaking on any subject."

I'm only whining in such a manner about Mono and Compiz stuff; I don't recall other subjects.
Oh, and I'm not a fool, although I'm not a programmer. Are you one of those "hardcore ubunteros" (btw, what I said earlier didn't imply all ubuntu users are idiots) or just a "mediocre programmer"?

"That's just from one post from one person. Unfortunately it's rather typical."

It can't be so typical for nothing.

@cas

Whatever.

Closed source… We all know…

But it is the best, and it is CROSSPLATFORM (!!!!!)

Meaning that my Mac people can use it, my Vista folks, my XP customers, and my little Linux crowd…

I used F-spot for about a year, before Picasa was available for Linux… But Picasa is vastly superior…

Oh yeah, and have a blast with your nautilus photo manager. giving two thumbs up for the comedy factor there bro. LMAO.

That may be true, Chris, but still bad. If they're that fed up with Microsoft they really should start learning a new language (how hard can it be to switch to C++ for that matter?). My words may seem idiotic as the only programming I did (if you can call it that) is some shell scripting, but I'm at some philosophical level maybe I do make some sense.
Microsoft hasn't (yet) hurt Mono only because it's or it will at some point bring them revenue; therefore, how hard can it be to show some common sense and humanity and use a replacement for Mono? The choices are out there.

If I ever win the lottery (I'm not even playing, but still.. ) I'll hire some kick ass Linux programmers to build those apps we miss